Bullets and Guns Get More Reaction Than Murders
I have been watching reaction to this column for 17 months, and I am always amazed at the fast and sharply emotional reaction to any debate on gun control, especially the one that I raised about the empty suits in the Pa. Legislature who refuse to give Phila. the chance to impose gun restrictions.
It has always been interesting to me that the stories of murder on the streets get little or no reaction, and that’s because the people who are not there, the people who are not living in fear, seem not to care, unless the killing gets close to them. That is the sad part of America - those who have so much who care so little about those under fire, whether it be serving their country in Iraq or dodging bullets on the streets of a city.
We truly live in the “ME” generation. It is also the “it’s not my problem generation.” It’s enough to make you sick just thinking about it.
I really enjoy reading the letters on both sides of the gun control debate. I just wish that those people who talk about weapons and rights start thinking about the victims, and the killers, and the opportunity to take the weapons of murder away.
The exchanges on this page are welcome and important.
I just wish we had as much reaction to the killings as we do to the arguments over guns.
When we stop feeling for the victims, we become a society full of empty promises and more than broken hearts - broken dreams.
Mr Kane,you are wrong.I don’t live in fear because i’m a law abiding citizen,i’m not part of the drug culture,my friends and associates are not druggies,and i am armed and very proficient when it comes to protecting myself and family.
You probably live inside a gate with an elaborate alarm system on your home,and preach about fear.
Move to West Philly and see how long you last.
No guns should be allowed within ANY city limits. Period. If you need to play w/ a gun, go to a gun club. Since that will never happen in this country, how about regulating the sale of bullets???
Larry, it is YOU who live in a fantasy world. Try working the streets of North Philly for 19 years like I did. Yep, I worked all the area west of Front & North of Market, day in and day out, night in and night out, too, for 19 years. How about you, Larry? Sitting up on City Ave and other news rooms, just reading the headlines. Maybe you ought to go out on the street like MacIntosh and Hunter and other reporters and see what it is really like out there. Oh, and no commnet about fellow Dem and liberal John Baer who finally got it right in his column the other day? Larry, for once in your life, get it straight: IT IS NOT GUNS THAT KILL PEOPLE, IT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO KILL PEOPLE. Yes, Larry, there are lots and lots of good, kind, hard-working, family people in the inner City, however there are lotd of BAD people who will kill ya just for the heck of it. How about the priest who was stabbed to death at 28th & Columbia for a few bucks in his pockets that was dto help the poor people of the neighborhood? Yes Larry, take way their guns (if you can) and they will use knives and clubs to kill each other. In the meantime, Larry, at least give law-abiding perople a fair shot at protecting themselves. In my opinion, based on BTDT, if Philly were turned into a CCW City with licenses to only those with no felonies, the crime rate would drop by about 90% Prove me wrongh, Larry!
Mr. Kane,
I respect your point-of-view, but I have to say that I totally disagree with you on all fronts, we don’t need empty rhetoric from Philly’s legislators who can’t even weed out corruption in their own city, but when a gun crime happens they clamor for more gun control, instead of trying to remedy the situation of crimnials, being let out off with little or no punishment at all, the justice system in Philly is broken from the bottom, up. Here is an example from a letter sent by the Philly PD chief of detectives, please read and try and understand. As for Charlotte P. I think she is related to Ted Kennedy, I guess we should just give up our rights at the City limits and walk into the O.K. Corral without and form of protection at all, if you would like something like this, there are plenty of countries that you can move to that do no have a Bill of Rights! Following letter from the Philly Chief of detectives:
Put the blame where it lies: The killers
We have to stop pointing the finger everywhere but at the very people who prey on us each day. Over time we have allowed our value system to erode. We refuse to hold people accountable for their actions and constantly make excuses for their inexcusable behavior. The incessant cry for tougher gun laws is a good example. Until we’re ready to strictly enforce the current laws there is no reason for tougher ones.
Yes, there is a need to work on the social ills at the core of much of the unrest, but that does not mean we should accept those ills as a reason to excuse the behavior. Those engaged in this violent lifestyle know exactly what they’re doing. They also know it is wrong. And they also know there are no serious consequences for their actions. It’s not a matter of not knowing right from wrong, it’s a matter of weighing the risk. And today they face very little risk.
Time after time these budding killers are arrested with guns, only to be returned to the streets with a slap on the wrist. Is it any wonder we have trouble getting witnesses to speak up? Instead of holding vigils at murder scenes, groups like Men United for a Better Philadelphia and Mothers in Charge should throw a ring around the Criminal In-Justice Center and demand that our judges hold the criminals accountable.
More than 80 percent of Philadelphia’s cold-blooded killers have criminal records. Most of those records are lengthy, many for violent crimes. Every one of those arrests represents an opportunity to send a clear message, before they take another life.
Joseph Fox
Chief of Detectives
Philadelphia Police Department
Philadelphia
So, Larry, here’s the invite: Knowing that you are a great investigative reporter, how about you hitting the bricks for once and getting both sides of the story. If you are afraid to go out on the street, then just go up to the JC and interview some of the perps, then interview some of th vics. Larry, get off your high horse and the rest of us will give you a good reference for your very own CCW.
Some are missing Kane’s point. We spend more time talking about Second Amendment rights than the plight of victims. There are simply too many innocents being killed. No one is advocating for the drug dealer who is killed in the fire of a dirty deal - it’s the dead bystander that we dismiss. Children being slaughtered is madness.
The prisons around here are overflowing so I don’t know where we’ll put all ’slapped wrists’. Also, if we’re turning them all out, who are all those people in jail?
There is also the idea that because people pull the trigger, the gun plays no part in the crime. Guns allow a misfit the ability to hide his weakness behind the strenght and distance of a weapon. Police have not been getting stabbed - they are getting shot, by criminals who would have neither the brains nor the strength to attack an armed officer face to face. Prosecuting a criminal is always AFTER the fact. Take away as much of the opportunity as you can and SOME of this mayhem will stop. Don’t give a madman any more of a chance.
Philadelphia is a home rule city. They should have the right to govern locally in a way that best suits the needs and rights of the area. The mayor-elect brought up a good point when he said that Philadelphians have a right not to get shot. That right has been held by the courts to be absolute. The right to own guns, unregulated, has not been held as a absolute right.
Jim,
I guess you are missing everyone else’s point also, including the Chief of Detectives in Philly, who blatently tells you exactly what is wrong with the city. And as a matter of fact, Philly DID have the right to make its own gun laws prior to 1996, did that help the crime rate any? We’re people still getting shot? Yes! The reason why that right was taken away was they did not follow the state law in issuing CCW permits to Philadelphia residents to let them be able to defend themselves. And, I don’t want to hear there is not enough money in Philly, when you have Milton Street getting million dollar Airport contracts and then evading taxes. ENFORCEMENT OF THE EXISTING OVER 2,000 GUN LAWS CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS IS THE ONLY ANSWER TO THE PROBLEM IN PHILADELPHIA, AND INSTEAD OF PHILLY POLICITICIANS LINING THEIR POCKETS AND THEIR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES POCKETS, MAYBE CREATE SOME JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE POORER PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA. Law-abiding individuals statewide should not have to give up their RIGHTS, because Philly cannot get it’s own house in order. You are right Philadelphia is a Home rule city, but is still one of the 67 COUNTIES in the STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA, which in my opinion makes if liable to follow state laws, if they don’t want to do that, they can succeed and join the PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF NEW JERSEY!
My son was shot and killed this year in the house he was living by his roomate. Why did his roomate even have a gun? He was not protecting himself as the people commenting above imply. He just thought he was cool. So his family gave it to him, thought it fine to give this very irresponsible 19 year old a gun. So although he is being charged with murder, he now has the ability to return to college, where he had already dropped out, to prove to our justice system what a great citizen he is and walk away with killing my son, who was in college and only irresponsibility was living with this kid.
So my two points are- who should be allowed to own a gun and why? should a family be able to give someone a gun without them being 21 and responsible?
Next, what is the punishment,how long does it take. He gets to wait almost a year to be tried and in that time is allowed to walk around, go to parties, go to college, have his life, at the cost of my son’s.
Lisa A,
I am very sorry for your loss, but his parents we’re irresponsible in giving him a gun to begin with. Now, I know for certain that at 18 years of age a person can go and purchase a gun as long as they have passed the PICS background check, my only area of not being sure is the transfer of a gun from an immediate family member to a legal adult, I do know if they purchased the handgun in their name with the intent to give to him they should be charged under federal statute as a straw-purchaser, but I am not sure when the gun in question was purchased. Again I am very sorry for your loss, and do believe that we coddle criminals in our society instead of putting them where they truly belong.
It will be interesting to see how the strict constructionists sitting on the U.S. Supreme Court analyze the 2nd amendment in the D.C. gun control case. I think that many people who haven’t read the Second Amendment will be surprised to learn that it does not expressely provide private citizens with the “right to keep and bear arms”, but reserves that right to “well regulated [state] militias.” The action or inaction of the Supreme Court should have an impact on gun laws in Philadelphia and PA.
Actually James,
You need to look at PA’s constitution which does not mention “militia” at all! Just affirms and “individual” right to bear arms….. I think the Supreme Court will finally rule that the 2nd Amendment has relatively nothing to do with militia’s either.
I think that they will probably side with the federal appelate court and rule DC’s gun ban unconstitutional also.
Mike,
Agreed on Philadelphia’s problem with corrupt politicians.
Agreed on the need to hold people accountable and get them out of society.
No one is suggesting that guns be eliminated throughout the state, but certain areas need to address specific needs. They usually have a better handle on this than Harrisburg - which has its own corruption issues - and the rest of the state ( same corruption issues)
We’re going from “Philadelphia - corrupt and contented” to “Pennsylvania- corrupt and contented”.
I often find that folks who quote the Second Amendement don’t quote the part that contains the words “militia’ and
“regulated”
Jim,
You are right, most politicians, either city or state or federal for that matter are corrupt. But what I’m stating is if you have read my posts, there are numerous gun laws on the books that are not enforced! ENFORCEMENT needs to be done, or you can continue to make more useless laws that “CRIMINALS” pay absolutely no attention to at all, hence the moniker CRIMINAL. So I guess you’re telling me that the Philadelphia Chief of Detectives does not know what he is talking about, considering he is in the trenches all the time? But I cannot condone or support the City of Philadelphia having the right to make it’s own gun laws, if you let them do it, than why not let the other 66 PA counties do it? Then you have 67 different laws from county to county, which would make a legal CCW carrier a criminal in one county to the next. It has to be a statewide uniform law to be reasonable and fair. If you do more research you will find the original framers of the constituion meant it to be an individual right, not just for creating militia, the reason being they did not want the federal government to become too strong, and interfere with states rights? as far as “regulated”, you don’t believe that over 2,000 gun-laws in PA alone, not counting the federal level as being regulated?
I finshed reading your article and one thing is missing if all witneses will not “rat out” the crimnal then the mayhem in the streets will continue. We have enough gun laws now use them. If you think gun control is the answer look at the crime in England since they took firearms away from their lawbiding citizens, it has gone way up but now only the criminals are carrying guns. America was founded on freedom if you do not like it move to Cuba Fidel will take care of you and your fellow travelers.
With the glorfication of the drug culture today, what is the point in caring if the people that are active in this culture do not care themselves. You cannot help a person that does not want to help. I think what the phenomenon you are referring to is not a lack of empathy, but a frustration in giving.
I’m not saying that the Chief of Detctives doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He’s addressing one issue-accountability. That’s agreed. But, there is no context for the letter - Is it a response to the release of a criminal on sympathy by a judge? Is it response to an editorial? Is it a letter to an FOP journal?
There’s a lot of cops on the street who would be delighted if ALL of the guns were eliminated. And, I don’t see those folks as political bleeding hearts. They tend to turn out for getting guns away from lunatics before they get a chance to use them.
Agreed that enforcement is needed to make any of it work.
BTW. Kane’s point is: not to become desensitized to the victims and not to let the issues become clouded.
“I just wish we had as much reaction to the killings as we do to the arguments over guns.”
Jim,
The letter from the detective was printed in the Philadelphia Tribune on April of this year in reaction to the idiotic morons that run Philadelphia, and the Philly state legislators, who like to blow smoke up people’s rear-ends and act as if they are actually doing something about the problem, maybe if they got off their fat rear-ends and actually cared about what was going on in the city instead of trying to placate a bunch of anti-gun zealots, than maybe something would actually get done. They always are trying to put the blame on someone else, instead of where it belongs the people that run the city. It is not a case of not feeling anything for the “innocent” victims, and I do mean innocent, because as far as the drug dealing thugs who get shot, seems to me to be an occupational hazard, and it just saves tax-payers some money, in not having to try them, having a liberal judge release them for the upteenth time, or if they have the misfortune of actually getting a judge that dispenses proper justice, then we give them 3 hots and a cot for a while, not to mention cable TV. Like I said, gun-owners are tired of the idiotic knee-jerk reactions that these politicians come up with, and we feel that we should not have to pay the price for a city that keeps electing inept, morally bankrupt leaders.
Why does Philadelphia think they have the right to impose their liberal views on the rest of the state, bad enough we have the windbag who used to be mayor in the governor’s mansion, and what has he done, except raise taxes, and look for more ways to raise taxes, what to funnel the money to SEPTA, which what do they do primarily serve Philadelphia.
And, why does Comissioner Johnson have a problem with Mayor-elect Nutters plan of stop and frisk, look if you are in a high-crime area and you see the same hoodlums on the corners, then you have a right to stop and find out what they are up to. Seems to me, the murder rate has steadily climbed ever since Street became Mayor and Johnson commissioner, maybe we should bring Timmoney Back…..
Mr Kane is absolutely right. People who live out in the “sticks” are trying to tell people in the city how to live. The first step is changing the constitution to let individual states set laws and rites on gun ownership. Guns are the tools of criminals. Take them away and the crimes go down, simple. We can live without guns.
Another misinformed person, I see, Andy, please research on England and Australia, since they have no gun rights and check their murder rate, also look at D.C. You are so wrong I don’t even have time to go into it. And, just for your information “States have the rights to make gun laws” And we don’t live in the sticks, but if we did we’d still be more knowledgeable than you are….. And Andy, just make a note that the word you are looking for is “Rights” as in the U.S. “Bill of Rights”.
Don’t ever see the U.S. Constitution being changed, but at least 27 states have the right to bear arms in their state Constitutions, such is the case in Pennsylvania. And if you are hell-bent on living in a place that bans all guns, by all means, leave, their are plenty of socialist countries for your choosing.
And, remember the only country that had a full gun-registration was Nazi Germany, and as soon as that was completed they then confiscated and destroyed them all, so when it was time to pack up the people to the concentration camps, normal citizens had no way to defend themselves.
You’re just one of the people out there that do very little research before offering their opinion on things they know absolutely nothing about. I guess we can just do away with Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, and the rest of the Bill of Rights…..
To paraphrase a great American.
An armed individual is a citizen, and unarmed individual is a “Subject”.
The problem is the fundamentally and tragically flawed assumption made in this column yesterday that is regurgitated ad infinitum and accepted uncritically on the editorial pages of the Inquirer and everwhere else. This being that yet more restrictions on those who obey laws in addition to the thousands already on the books will reduce crime. There is not a shred of credible evidence anywhere to show that such laws would reduce crime - and, in fact, some of the current proposals may actually have the opposite effect.
It does, however, create a strawman to allow spineless city politicians and their sock puppets in the media to pontificate about how ‘Harrisburg’, the ‘gun lobby’ or ‘Pennsyltucky’ won’t give them their wish list, and transfers blame for urban violence to those who can’t or won’t vote for them anyway.
So why is it that millions of Pennsylvanians who own guns and don’t live in a small number of urban neighborhoods aren’t constantly shooting each other? If guns are the problem, then how come three days ago, when I and a million or so others in the state were sporting our blaze orange and mossy oak in the game lands of PA, we didn’t have rivers of blood from all the violence and accidents allegedly caused by guns?
It isn’t that those who live outside of Philly don’t care. More likely, we’re just tired of all the predictable rhetoric and blame-shifting by the Rendells of the world every time someone gets shot and the inevitable calls for ineffective legislative band-aids that inevitably results.
Well-said Ernie!
I think that the Nazi Germany analogy is a little unique. Most dictators control information (media) rather than guns. The middle East is filled with weaponry and there’s not a democracy in sight. The U.S. is the only industrialized country that has a murder-in-the streets problem with this size. The cultures of other places seem to be the difference. The social rules and accountability structure make a big difference. No place has the problem with random violence and mayhem that we have and guns are not the difference. The entire way of life is different. Maybe we should step back and grab the good points from others, throw out the junk, and calm down.
Mike, You make a lot of strong judgements about some of the bloggers here. Maybe you know some of the regulars here, I don’t know. I’ll check in here once and a while to see if you have the same zeal for all of the rights in the Constitution.
Jim,
Nazi Germany is not that unique whwn you see and hear about the horrors in Sudan, again another people who have no right to bear arms, so they are just slaughtered, by thugs, the government, and roaming bands of thieves.
I’m sure I will have the same zeal for any part of the Constitution that comes under attack, perfect example is I don’t believe in abortion except for rare circumstances, but it is the law of the land, and therefore must be upheld, since we say we are a nation of laws, we must enforce and abide by them.
I do believe everyone has a right to their opinions, and I respect yours also, and I do commend you for not lumping people that don’t agree with the city being able to make their own gun laws as people from the “sticks”, red-necks, and so on. I grew up in Philly, in the Feltonville section and also the Olney area, and graduated from Olney High, and worked in CC for 10 years across from old Inquirer building, and I have to say the City has a lot more problems than trying to make it harder for law-abiding people to protect themselves.
In ending, I’d like to thank you for a lively and thought-provoking dicussion, and agin to LisaA, I am deeply sorry for your loss, and I hope and pray that you receive justice.
well said andy,it seems ernie and mike will fight for someone tapping a foot in a bathroom stall,but not for the safety of the elderly or the young.
Same here. From another Philly kid. (Oak Lane almost a neighbor) who doesn’t carry a gun to travel downtown.
I am a former resident of Philadelphia and read the news here regularly. I don’t think it is an accident that these children in poor areas all over the city are getting these very exspensive guns. If these same kids all had laptops there would be an investigation. I wouldn’t even know where to buy bullets in Philly. How do these kids get them? Keeping guns in your house is one thing but not even trying to regulate the proliferation of handguns is ultimately going to be the undoing of our Entire society. The Main Line too.
What a thoughtful debate.Lisa, so sorry about your loss.
The bottom line is that there ARE criminals and that they are less effective guns.